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Author Topic: How Professional Cosplayers Are Propelling Fanboy's Obsessions  (Read 429 times)
Nephtys
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Re: How Professional Cosplayers Are Propelling Fanboy's Obsessions
« Reply #15 on: November 15, 2007, 08:25:58 PM »

Quote from: zizi
from a girl's perspective, this job is not "liberating" or wonderful at all. it's like belittling yourself to nothing or worse.

That's true of course. They're only dating people but it's easy enough to imagine a similar branch in the business of prostitution.

To be fair though, nobody said that this job was liberating for women. The discussion, so far, was more concerned about psychological implications to customers of such a service.

Quote from: zizi
sorry for really late post
No need. Your post re-opened the discussion from a whole different angle, which is always a good thing.
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Re: How Professional Cosplayers Are Propelling Fanboy's Obsessions
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2007, 10:28:48 PM »

Quote from: zizi on November 15, 2007, 09:43:21 AM
even after all you guys said, it's still kind of weird and i can't help myself but think it's a way of whoring yourself out. i know it's a different culture and nation but with something like this, there's always a possibility that you'll come across a certain psycho or a REALLY creepy guy that would want you to do things that would make you, the cosplayer feel uncomfortable. from a girl's perspective, this job is not "liberating" or wonderful at all. it's like belittling yourself to nothing or worse.

this already happens in more places than one, whether in prostitution or a college party or the Playboy mansion or in a high school. if a girl feels like carting around her sexuality to derive some self confidence, or better yet some cash, we can call it wrong, but the gals agreed to be employees. hopefully that's the case or else someone's going to be stewing in some real trouble.

since it's already rampant globally, not just off in Japan, i just can't find myself being too shocked that fantasy fulfillment has happened in yet another form.
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Re: How Professional Cosplayers Are Propelling Fanboy's Obsessions
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2007, 02:25:32 AM »

Quote from: zizi on November 15, 2007, 09:43:21 AM
from a girl's perspective, this job is not "liberating" or wonderful at all. it's like belittling yourself to nothing or worse.
what makes prostitution "belittling [...] or worse"?  not saying that i agree or disagree with you, just an honest question.

Quote from: Nephtys on November 15, 2007, 08:25:58 PM
They're only dating people but it's easy enough to imagine a similar branch in the business of prostitution.

from her website [myspace]:
"I can sing, dance and host 3(-_^) in costume!"

the meaning of the word "host" here is many things, up to and including sexual favors.  so no, it's not only dating people.
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Re: How Professional Cosplayers Are Propelling Fanboy's Obsessions
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2007, 07:02:07 AM »

Quote from: dmizer
the meaning of the word "host" here is many things, up to and including sexual favors.  so no, it's not only dating people.

Ah, I see. Wasn't aware of that.
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Re: How Professional Cosplayers Are Propelling Fanboy's Obsessions
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2007, 10:40:45 AM »

Quote from: zizi on November 15, 2007, 09:43:21 AM
from a girl's perspective, this job is not "liberating" or wonderful at all. it's like belittling yourself to nothing or worse.

perhaps the people playing the character have as much an obsession to be that character as the obsession the person has with dating that character.  Lets not make assumptions about other people's moral judgments.  Aside from the fact that anime characters were never real, it's really not all that different from an Elvis/Madonna/Dolly Parton impersonator taking somebody on a date. 

Perhaps the girl in question has one of those ideas that she never really wants a real relationship and just wants alot of sex, perhaps she enjoys some of those anime character fetishes.

It's one thing to say you'd feel belittled in this role, but assuming we know how other people are acting and making moral judgements about those assumptions just gets kinda silly sounding.
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Re: How Professional Cosplayers Are Propelling Fanboy's Obsessions
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2007, 12:52:16 PM »

Quote from: zizi on November 15, 2007, 09:43:21 AM
from a girl's perspective, this job is not "liberating" or wonderful at all. it's like belittling yourself to nothing or worse.

I'd have to agree with The Destroyer on this.  It would be like me saying that from a guys perspective that BIG TITS (DD+) are what WE crave.  Its not something I agree with, and don't appreciate the stereotype that has come from it.

I also have to agree with Dmizer in that people need unbiased when looking at other cultures.  There are still Indian tribes in the world where women walk around topless (see any National Geographic).  Would you say from a girls perspective that is a demeaning practice and they should cover up?

I think that its interesting that a lot (I wont quantify more than that) of Americans (and other cultures where it applies) enjoy and expect the freedom of speech/expression, do not value or understand what that means.  If you like say, cats and you tell everyone this, and that they are better than dogs, someone else has just as much right to say that dogs are better, and say that you are mistaken.  You don't have to agree (which you wouldn't if you had a cat), and you don't even have to listen.  Just leave if you don't like what you're hearing/seeing.  Same for art.  If you don't like someone's art, don't look, or use your right to denounce it.  Just understand that its someone else's right to put it out there for consideration.

Long story short, while I do not support or agree with things like what this cosplay person is doing, and I can say as much, I'm not her keeper.  If that is what she wants to do, then that is her choice.  Choice being the key.  You can choose for yourself, but not for someone else. 
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Re: How Professional Cosplayers Are Propelling Fanboy's Obsessions
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2007, 02:58:59 PM »

Quote from: The Destroyer on November 16, 2007, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: zizi on November 15, 2007, 09:43:21 AM
from a girl's perspective, this job is not "liberating" or wonderful at all. it's like belittling yourself to nothing or worse.
It's one thing to say you'd feel belittled in this role, but assuming we know how other people are acting and making moral judgements about those assumptions just gets kinda silly sounding.

just because it's not proven doesn't make moral judgements sorta silly sounding. i mean, some past moral judgements like saying slavery is wrong or genocide is not very acceptable is popularily accepted both scienticficly and moraly.

it's kind of hard to say that being sexually promiscuous doesn't do something to you anyways. 

we "assume" that alcoholism stems from something more serious than just liking alcohol and know it results in more than just eroding your physical health. we also "assume" that it leads to a change to your self-image, among other things.

these gals have made choices to be sexually available, but we also have the choice to say what is probably the cause and what is the result of these actions without sounding like a hellfire-and-brimstone preacher. if you open your body up to a paying customer, i "assume" pretty strongly that you're not helping out your mental well-being (much less, physical) or your self-image. i'm not saying that it's right to go out with a bat and convince prostitutes and other women to stop what they do just because i think it's harmful, but i would at least try to do something if i'm ever given the chance.

we can't always be this indifferent to everything just because we put some things like sexual promiscuity as inevitable. it might be, but i'm not going to believe taht those people are a different race of humans that aren't affected by depression or aimlessness or other typical people problems. all that sex to get money is just as demeaning as if i were to go out in costume and sell sexual favors (though my being a male and not being particularily handsome would probably get me arrested for public indecency).
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 03:10:53 PM by Sleeper » Logged

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Re: How Professional Cosplayers Are Propelling Fanboy's Obsessions
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2007, 03:19:23 PM »

Quote from: Sleeper on November 17, 2007, 02:58:59 PM
Quote from: The Destroyer on November 16, 2007, 10:40:45 AM
Quote from: zizi on November 15, 2007, 09:43:21 AM
from a girl's perspective, this job is not "liberating" or wonderful at all. it's like belittling yourself to nothing or worse.
It's one thing to say you'd feel belittled in this role, but assuming we know how other people are acting and making moral judgements about those assumptions just gets kinda silly sounding.

just because it's not proven doesn't make moral judgements sorta silly sounding. i mean, some past moral judgements like saying slavery is wrong or genocide is not very acceptable is popularily accepted both scienticficly and moraly.

actually, it wasn't just the moral judgement I was taking issue with.  We're all welcome to make moral judgements, and no, this is nothing like slavery, so find a different, more comparable subjective topic on which moral judgements can be made.

The point I was taking issue with, was that Zizi was saying that(and I paraphrase) "as a women this is belittling", well, she's not doing the job and nobody is making her.  Why is it belittling?  She is assuming that first: women think as she does.  "is not liberating at all." says who?  How often do you get to dress up?  For a sexually active person, maybe it's like crossing their three favorite things, anime, dressing up, and sex.  Maybe they feel very confined by the established female roles in Japanese society(which are very confining), so this job could be very liberating.  Here she's assuming that all women can ONLY feel liberated by non-sexual acts.  Perhaps some women find it liberating to be able to have sex like men, whenever, whereever and with whomever they please.  That's not really what it is to be a man, but a mans sex life is certainly less restricted that a womans.  And lastly how is it making you "little or nothing", they certainly are getting alot of attention for what they're doing.

in short, it's far beyond the simple moral judgement of "I think this is bad".  It's a moral judgement wrapped up in a "everyone should think as I do" and feminist elitism.  She has no idea what makes this particular woman feel liberated, belittled or more a woman.  Yet she's assuming that she does.  Which yes, it does sound silly.

Quote from: Sleeper on November 17, 2007, 02:58:59 PM
we "assume" that alcoholism stems from something more serious than just liking alcohol and know it results in more than just eroding your physical health. we also "assume" that it leads to a change to your self-image, among other things.
but those aren't moral judgments, those are character assumptions.

Quote
these gals have made choices to be sexually available, but we also have the choice to say what is probably the cause and what is the result of these actions without sounding like a hellfire-and-brimstone preacher. if you open your body up to a paying customer, i "assume" pretty strongly that you're not helping out your mental well-being (much less, physical) or your self-image.
why?  it's not like you're being raped.  If you enjoy sex, which while society would tell you otherwise, many women DO enjoy sex, and don't like to be in long term relationships, all you're adding into the mix is pretending to be *character name* instead of yourself.  There's a variety of people who already do that with their boyfriends and girlfriends and they simply don't get paid for it.  Furthermore, sex is very healthy(as long as you avoid STDs), good sex, bad sex, masturbation, ect.... it burns calories, keeps you fit, is pleasureable, so how is it bad for your health?  Yes, STDs, and while there are alot of those running around, it does not mean that sex=disease.

Quote
i'm not saying that it's right to go out with a bat and convince prostitutes and other women to stop what they do just because i think it's harmful, but i would at least try to do something if i'm ever given the chance.
why?  Why do you feel it's your right to take people from their chosen career because you disapprove of it?  yes, there are a lot of bad deals for prostitutes, and I'd be more than glad if you changed that, but if the Mustang Ranch in Nevada has taught me anything, it's that some women, like some men, perfer sex over meaningful relationships.

Quote
we can't always be this indifferent to everything just because we put some things like sexual promiscuity as inevitable.
who said I was being indifferent?  I'm making a moral judgement too, just not assuming the person thinks like me.

Quote
it might be, but i'm not going to believe taht those people are a different race of humans that aren't affected by depression or aimlessness or other typical people problems.
so you believe that people only have sex when they have problems?  Sex IS a pleasureable act, don't trick yourself into thinking that sex is just a reproductive act.

Quote
all that sex to get money is just as demeaning as if i were to go out in costume and sell sexual favors
why is it demeaning?  Isn't freedom one of our big things?  And capitalisim?  And we all know sex is enjoyable.  So if one gets paid 100 bucks for sex, and $200 for wearing a costume while doing so, as long as it's their decision to do that, what's the problem?
« Last Edit: November 17, 2007, 03:35:49 PM by The Destroyer » Logged

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Re: How Professional Cosplayers Are Propelling Fanboy's Obsessions
« Reply #23 on: November 18, 2007, 08:57:02 AM »

if i might have been misinterpreted, i don't believe that slavery is any way comparable to cosplaying, unless there is some Japanese human trafficking i haven't heard about.

it's true. since i'm not these women, i probalbly will never know their view on their situation. but i guess since i'm viewing sex in a more conservative light i'll probably not view the practical use of sex through rose color lens.

these ladies are free to make these choices, but in this moment i still think it might bring more long run consequences than short term gratification, whether i know what these girls think or not.

i just say that we can't put moral judgements out of the equation any more than our comments about sex being a pleasurable and healthy vent for emotions.
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