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Author Topic: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!  (Read 577 times)
hp
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #30 on: March 31, 2008, 01:50:06 AM »

wow you guys are getting serious ^^

Actually there are tons of artists whose "image" might come before their "product."  There's some artist out there right now (I can't remember his name) who does "invisible" art lol...and he's totally in tons of big galleries now.  WTF.
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Steven Heinrich
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #31 on: March 31, 2008, 02:13:02 AM »

The first name (even though it isn't an "visual" artist) that popped into my head was Keanu Reeves... Grin

Secondly, on a more serious note to the intelligent bend of the conversation, I would propose Andy Warhol.  Yes, I know he started out as a graphic artist, however, the point of his becoming famous was based on an "image" specifically one of painting pop culture of famous American products.  The concept of said image is arguably a key point of this discussion.  Was what he did "ART" or was his creation of "The Factory" and mass production of "art" of mass produced items brilliantly commercialized marketing?

I would say that the true "art" from him was the creation of the image and not the actual production pieces.

Had he not gone about creating controversy in such a methodical manner, making films, and grooming other so called "Superstars" would he have been nearly as famous?

Can his "art" as art alone stand against other artists, such as Monet or Picasso or Matisse, which are just as grandly promoted among the general public?   
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meauho
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2008, 07:51:16 AM »

I've got another: Paris Hilton.

When you actually break it down, she is all image, no substance.  While I will grant that her image was not wholly her creation, the only reason she has had the opportunities she has is because of image.  Even her "reality show" was based off of image; hers and Nicole Richie's


On the flip side, negative image can ruin somebody - despite their product.  Tom Cruise managed to destroy his image in a spectacular manner... on the tail of the very successful Mission Impossible 3. 
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Starrydance
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2008, 08:53:43 AM »

On a different note, remember that for the most part we sell fan art.  So really, its not us, how we do art, what we do it on, how well we do it, how much we paid for it, how much it IS ----

Its who is ON that shiney, shiney object and if the person on the other side of the table is, indeed, a squealing fan. 

So really, the "Image" of the character that sells fan art, and the rest is up to us! =D
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thatreevesgirl
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #34 on: March 31, 2008, 11:06:17 AM »

Quote from: augh what on March 30, 2008, 11:17:47 PM
Friendliness and respect are not the same thing; product is always more important than image. No product, no artist.

Where did I ever say that you had to give someone your product in order to be friendly to them?  You don't.  But you should always be nice to your customers and other artists.  That means not being a snot when you are telling them gently to find their own way.  If someone is lurking at my table, I'm not going to tell them to go away.  That is just rude, and would affect me and my studio's sales.
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Ladre
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #35 on: March 31, 2008, 12:13:25 PM »

I'm totally with you image people. (In fact, the first person I thought of was also Paris Hilton  Grin) I know customers and fellow artists can probably be annoying from time to time, and I definitely see more complaining about customers than praise, but we can't forget that we're trying to sell to them and without them we're kinda sunk. I wouldn't go so far to necessarily say "customer is always right" though. Some people may talk like they're some kinda blessing to con-goers, and it's the con-goers privilege to be able to buy their stuff, and they're entitled to treat them however. (I promise I have no one specific in mind lol, promise!) Whereas I see it as my privilege to be able to sell to them and other artists. And I doubt any of us would have as good a time at a con if our image was that of a jerk =P I do think we should always be nice, even when things get ridiculous and we finally have to *nicely* ask someone to leave. (Which I would do, but only under the most distressing circumstance).

Oh and what Starrydance said about what's on the object and not who made it/how it was made. I agree with it in the context of "squealing fans" who may have come to buy absolutely anything/everything with *insert overrated character* on it. But I also think that a lot of fans do care about who made it and how. If they're familiar with the artist especially. If I just stumble across a piece of fanart for a series I like, I probably won't get too excited. But if an artist I've always really liked draws fanart of my fave series, then I might get excited. And I know for sure that some people are looking for fanart that's done in a special or unique way, or that's just special in general because of how the characters are drawn and stuff. I know that's how I am. I never really buy fanart, but I bought some last year cause it was miles above the typical stuff.

But yeah, she's right. Image definitely sells for fanart; it's a good example of how image is important (one that is the bane of my existence  ). Now how to sell for original art... hmm...
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bigbigtruck
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #36 on: March 31, 2008, 07:14:10 PM »

Quote from: thatreevesgirl on March 31, 2008, 11:06:17 AM
If someone is lurking at my table, I'm not going to tell them to go away.  That is just rude, and would affect me and my studio's sales.

Unless they are camping out and blocking other customers from coming by XD
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thatreevesgirl
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #37 on: March 31, 2008, 07:19:33 PM »

Quote from: bigbigtruck on March 31, 2008, 07:14:10 PM
Quote from: thatreevesgirl on March 31, 2008, 11:06:17 AM
If someone is lurking at my table, I'm not going to tell them to go away.  That is just rude, and would affect me and my studio's sales.

Unless they are camping out and blocking other customers from coming by XD

True, so very, very true.  My studio mates tell me that I have an issue with talking with people far past the point of being polite, but that is why there are three of us at the table (I can't not be polite, I think it is impossible for me).  That way I can take the chatty cathy aside and continue our conversation at the corner of the table, or I'll even hop out and talk to them in the isle and my two partners take the selling from there.  We have a fluid method of distracting the person who is chatting or blocking merch.  It works pretty well.
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Hastur
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2008, 07:11:16 AM »

I told this story in a different place, but I want to repeat it because it very much fits.

At an A-Kon a bit back, I had a piece of scum sucking gutter slime person come up and ask who my suppliers were.
When I hesitated for a moment, he explained that he wanted to know because he wanted to start making hairsticks like the ones that I sold.

Guess what my response was. 
Now guess what my response level was. 

Admittedly, I have a slightly different approach than most of the artists.  I make the 'crafty' stuff.  However, I consider it a type of art (at least it is for me), and therefore when someone is being blatant like that, I'm going to give them the verbal smackdown.  It is not going to hurt my image if I do so, either (I think). 

There are a million things that I do to make this stuff work, and most of them are not duplicatable (that's not really a word, is it?) by others, in the same way.

-  I have a majorly good relationship with one of my favorite fabric suppliers.  She knows me and gives me discounts because she knows I will keep coming back.  It took AGES to make that relationship - not to mention learning some information about other cultures.
-  I have a relationship with a supplier in China.  It took a ton of e-mail where I had to read between the lines and learn to think in circles so that I could understand and work with that one.
-  I have a relationship with another supplier that involves occasionally 'bribing' them with a finished product.  It's totally worth it for the discounts and to get the IM where that person is going "squee!" periodically. 

These are just examples. 

Yes, this is business.  As a business, we need to treat it with the respect and attention to details that a business necessitates.  So, when someone asks for information, we should ALWAYS consider how it will be used. 

After all, it's not that hard to do research.  That's what the library and internet were invented for.
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Ladre
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2008, 11:21:25 AM »

I totally agree with clamming up in that kind of situation =D

And I think with crafty stuff there's a difference in the danger of sharing your secrets (I think we all agree that what you do is indeed art, Hastur  Wink). I would imagine your sales depend a lot more on what you have to offer that's unique, and supplies probably get very pricey, which makes it all the more special when you have "relationships" with suppliers =3

I wish I had crafty skills, but I imagine it's way more complex than just draw, color, print, sell. *admires crafty people*

If I ever get somewhere where I have good things going for me, I'll just take it on a case-by-case basis when deciding whether or not to share advice and secrets. But I have to say I'm sooo very appreciative of the help some people have been so generous about sharing *would be lost without you*
Oh and by the way, duplicatable is a word according to some dictionaries, but duplicable is used more often *finds words sexy*
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Hastur
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2008, 01:55:08 PM »

You're jealous, Ladre? Weird.  I've always been jealous of all of you people that can paint and draw and stuff.  It's not my particular skillset and man, I wish it were. 

Thank you for the update on the word (seriously).  I too find that words can be sexy, but for some reason my brain was not completely engaged this morning. 

*wanders off to beat on the AA layout some more*
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Loriofpandora
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2008, 02:07:00 PM »

I dunno. Unless it's super-secret proprietary information (like say, how Hastur dyes those pretty silks), I never mind sharing what I know with others. Telling people where to find the cheapest prints sleeves or where to find backing board is not an issue for me. I don't find that keeping my information to my self when others could learn from it is in any way detrimental to my business. Newbies to AA all kind of get funneled to me, and I'm happy to share what I've learned with them.

I view us as a community. I mean, I suppose that technically we are all in competition with one another, but at the same time I'm very comfortable in my niche, and I know that I will always have repeat customers, clients and the random buyer who likes the shinies. In the end, no matter what you tell them, they have to MAKE IT on their own. So asking "how did you do that one effect" shouldn't be that big of a deal in the long run.

I will always share what I know, because in the end, you're only making things slightly cheaper for someone to try and make it in this business. They still have to make it all by themselves.
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Ladre
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2008, 07:55:47 PM »

Quote from: Loriofpandora on April 04, 2008, 02:07:00 PM
I don't find that keeping my information to my self when others could learn from it is in any way detrimental to my business. Newbies to AA all kind of get funneled to me, and I'm happy to share what I've learned with them.
And it is for that that I owe you my life *_* *clings*
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bassanimation
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Re: Competition: Loose Lips Sink Ships!
« Reply #43 on: April 07, 2008, 12:32:28 PM »

Quote
I will always share what I know, because in the end, you're only making things slightly cheaper for someone to try and make it in this business. They still have to make it all by themselves.

Totally agree  ^_^  Im also very glad there are still people like Loriofpandora out there.  Without 'teachers', we would all flounder in the darkness (or in this case, Hobby Lobby..which isnt too far off from 'the darkness')  I too will share information with serious people, people who really want to learn.  I am so greatful to the people who have shared their knowledge with me in the past.  The least I can do is pay it forward a little.  However, I must admit..I'm not the carefree person I was before reading this thread  ^^;.  I'll be much more aware now if people are comin' fer me!  Which they will anyways.  ^_^   I guess if I did cons for a living I would too. 

I'm fortunate to have a jobby job, so I can view the AA as a fun thing most of the time.  Selling well is so awesome, yes, but I'm not willing to undercut anyone to make those sales.  I guess that is why I will never be queen of the AA, hahahaah.  (that's what the jobby job gives me: sits on throne made of old coffee cups and Adobe boxes) 

People will best you if they want to, no matter if share with them or not.  Like Lori said, helping them save a little money on the way won't hurt you.  mofo, you would not believe..  If someone comes to me to ask how I did it, I will share the key parts with them, because damn....I about hung myself.   


« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 12:36:07 PM by bassanimation » Logged

***Thank you to generous person for offering a part of your table to us!  {hug}***
Would still like to remain on wait list, just in case someone cancels.

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