Paper for marker renderings - help requested

[etherealist]

Hey all, I have a question about a good type of paper to use for marker renderings.  Here is what I'm looking for:

1.) Medium absorption rate - so that multiple layers of marker ink may be layed down to achieve a gradation of tones.

2.) Medium tooth - so that colored pencil may be layed down well for highlights and line work.

Here's what I think of the stuff I've tried so far:

- Canson marker paper: This is basically a standard coated marker paper.  It sucks cause it has no marker absorption.  The ink just pools on top of the paper if you try to lay down multiple coats.  Doesn't really make the tone any darker.  Also, has no tooth, so worthless for colored pencil postwork.

- Strathmore Smooth Bristol Paper - Good absorption rate allowing a gradation of tone, but no tooth, so colored pencil postwork is difficult.

As far as "marker papers" go, I think the people that use them have the goal of minimizing marker bleed.  As a result of research into marker techniques, I have learned this goal is misguided.  Some marker bleed is actually advantageous when laying down areas of color.  So the search for a good type of paper to use continues...

Suggestions requested.  Thanks in advance,
--James

[tkawaii]

what I've used has been cardstock of 60lbs.  make sure to get the 'regular' finish and not the 'extra smooth one'

it works good with marker, color pencials, and to an extent water color.

i think the paper brand is hammermile

[dovienya]

Cardstock might work, but I'd suggest getting heavier than 60lbs if you (like me) like to layer on the marker thick. Bristol is somewhere around 100 lbs, right? So something around that, maybe. Once I saw 200 lb card stock.

Keep posting as you keep experimenting - I'm always looking for new marker paper to try.

[Spizzy]

get vellum bristol. All the niceness of bristol with tooth.

[Selie]

Smooth bristol... bad for colored pencils?

Huh. I've been using it for years and it's my favorite combo. I HATE textured papers.

So, in your opinion, the special marker paper is actually not very good for markers? Do you suppose it's a stylistic thing?

[Spizzy]

no, marker paper just sucks. Plus it's way too thin. I always damaged mine just from drawing on it.

I hate textured papers too, lol. I colored my colored pencil stuff on smooth bristol (when I actually did colored pencil drawings) I do however like the canson colored and textured paper. It's nice for life studies when you're working with stick media (charcoal, art stix, conte, pastels) and the colors can really add alot ot a drawing.

[etherealist]

Texture and tooth of paper are two different things (as I recently learned).

Texture of a paper is sort of like a repeating pattern "stamped" throughout the paper.  Like the "grid" on a canvas or that pressed pattern in some watercolor paper.

The tooth is sort of like the grittiness or the grain of the paper, from course to fine (like sandpaper grades).  So if you rub a pencil, or piece of charcoal across the paper, the more of a tooth it has, the more resistance there will be to your stroke and the more you can build up darkness / tone with dry media.

Sorry this isn't really technical, but just in my own words from my own understanding.

Well, didn't make it out to art supply stores this weekend.  I'll probably go sometime this week or this coming weekend.  Thanks for suggestions so far!

[Spizzy]

well I learned something new today. In that case, I'm not sure if vellum bristol is what would work for you, but I think if you got check it out for yourself you'd find out. It has a very light texture but I'm not sure if it had the tooth you're looking for--I've never worked on it before but I have a stack of it (not sure why, lol)

[Selie]

I had to read that description of tooth vs. texture three times before I finally got it. I'm slow tonight... must be all that delicious curry overriding my senses (mmm curry).

Thanks so much for clearing that up for me!

I've just noticed that some textured pads of paper mention having X tooth too, so I made a connection between the two. So is there a connection between the tooth of a paper and how much that paper gums up a nib pen?

I don't like vellum bristol board very much at all. I started on it and as soon as I found smooth bristol, I never looked back.

[tkawaii]

thats why I like this paper that I have!

so it has a medium tooth yet heavy enough.  60lbs was fine with me (especially since I cant find 110lbs in A3 size) but I do have some letter size 110lbs and extra smooth. it looks realy nice with marker but color pencial is horrible on it.

Hmm, I've heard of those that use thinker drawing paper and it works with both marker and pencial (I think its straford 400 series drawing pads)

But I only go up to about 5-10 layers of marker since the brand I use bleeds so much so I dont make too much effort to blend.

[Spizzy]

*doesn't like using any weight under 70 lb*

I use so many layers with marker, that I bled through the marker paper XP

[bigbigtruck]

Strathmore Vellum Bristol has more tooth than the Smooth.  I think their 512/550 is also good.

[Loriofpandora]

I use Border & Riley bleed-proof paper for pens. Its never let me down with my marker work.